n 21 Apr 1997,  rbp233@primenet.com (Randolph Parrish) wrote:
>mef@netaxs.com (Mike Fessler) wrote:
> >>: Joshua Moss wrote:
>>: >>: >Randolph, you are skipping over two of the more important phrases in the Psalm
>as if they were not there.
>>: >>: ROTFL! This is the pot calling the kettle black.
> >>Randolph, you didn't respond to his argument. Would you care to?

> > This Psalm starts by citing the kings of the earth who rise up against the rule of God and his messiah. This messiah cannot be an ordinary Israelite king since no ordinary king of Israel ever ruled over the kings of the earth, nor did they rebel against his rule and the rule of God. No king of Israel could ever have announced that God said to him, 'You are My son, today I have begotten you.' Nor was any king of Israel, other than the messiah, ever promised by God that he would recieve the nations as his inheritance, and the ends of the earth for his possession. These are elements of Psalm 2 which Josh has chosen to ignore, and 'skip over as if they were not there'.  He is swallowing a camel and straining at a gnat.  He is also ignoring the traditional Jewish interpretations of this Psalm which refer it to the messiah. (Thus, if Christianity inherited and adapted this interpretation also, it cannot be said that it has 'invented' this interpretation, or is trying to find something which is not there.)

To which Qball replied,
 

Psalm 2, at least for many serious Old Testament scholars who have delved into its ins and outs, is a a coronation hymn for kings in the Davidic line.   Like every coronation of earthly kings it is a hype event, accentuating the positive which leads to exaggeration of the perogatives and limits of the king's powers.  (Just as the British monarch when his powers and titles are read off, you'd think there was no other king in the universe .  So in rituals, even weddings, stark reality is not the name of the game.  Rather hope, high expectations, idealism are the order of the day.   Maybe that is why ritual, pomp and circumstance, are so important and effective as in the case of the British Empire in days of yore.   But 100% reality they are not!

So, in Old Testament times Psalm 2 maybe was used in the coronation of real kings and spoke of his assumption of power in idealized terms. With the passage of the centuries it was logical to think that the Messiah, the representive of the King of Universe on earth, could be projected and cast in the glorious, idealized terms used to describe kings in the David line i.e. Psalm 2.  One could be very academic and say the Messiah (Jesus of Nazareth) is a spiritualized version of Psalm 2 and that Jesus sanitized the Old Testament militarized, nationalistic Messianic hope. Jesus, as Messiah defined himself.  He did not let his disciples, nationalistic Messianic expectations or even Old Testament writings determine his teachings or course of action. And so the Christian Messiah does not rule with a rod of iron to bust rulers who beg to differ with him on matters of power and jurisdiction.

However, the reality of European (and now world) history till now shows the tough Messiah image of Psalm 2 is much in line with what has transpired from the busting (outliving) of the Roman Empire's victious bloody persecution of the Church right up to the recent fall of the mega Communist threat to Christ's spiritual order on earth. In Psalm 2 the Messiah seems to grab and maintain power with the sword and the threat of death and destruction leveled against his enemies. This was definitely not the modus operendi of Jesus of Nazareth.  However, his kingdom is an everlasting one and its extent far surpasses the wildest dreams of anything envisioned by the writer of Psalm 2 who really was not talking about Australia, North or South America and maybe not much of Europe , Asia or Africa.